Tan Tian: Actually, I’m a part-time artist.
Interviewer & author: Yao Yao
Editor: Ladong
Before talking to Tan Tian, I read a preview of his solo show, “(Billboard, Manifesto, Joke)” and a compressed file named “Tan Tian’s Album” (his portfolio), took a brief tour around his website www.tan-tian.com, then cheerfully went on the WeChat mini program of Kongfuzi.com to order books authored by Tan Ping and Teng Fei, parents of Tan Tian. The titles include Bildende Kunst – Universität der Künste Berlin, and Artist Open Studio Vol. 3: Tan Ping’s Studio. I hesitated until today to get Teng Fei’s As Time Elapses for the seller wanted 300 CNY. Except for this one remaining in my cart, the other two arrived. I read them through. For some reason, the interview outline gradually merged into the shape of an email filled with questions. I was hoping it could be in text how Tan Tian would answer these questions – or not all of them; in case he wouldn’t feel like answering any of those, he could skip them, of course. This way, we may avoid the post-pandemic-video-interview awkwardness, in the meantime removing filters of the tone & voice and reducing the fuzz caused by the artist’s appearance and charisma. The main advantage of this form is that for both ends, there is no need to perform but plainly: questions & answers. Tan Tian accepted the “pen-interview” proposal.
De Pot, the art space on Middle Wulumuqi Road, Xuhui District Shanghai, has shown two works of Tan Tian. One was Marvin Gaye Chetwynd + Haegue Yang + Naama Tsabar, from the “How to Make A Contemporary Art Work” series. In this series, Tan expressed his observation, research, thinking, and critique of contemporary art “production”: acquiring names from the “Database Index” he built, decoding, analyzing, and re-organizing the signature forms & materials of the artists, Tan Tian created another brand new contemporary art piece. This might be a glance at his insight into the contemporary art world and his open, international vision, probably a touch of his humor, too. Another piece was a “texts painting” – 10 pieces of paper with 10 titles - The Explanation, archived in his “2019” series on his website. It seems there ought to be another 10 pieces of paper under this title, shown simultaneously with the “texts painting”. This could be Tan’s attempt at the “thick description” method from social anthropology but applied with “paper” and “paint” on canvas, instead of “textual” words. Very impressed.
The third solo exhibition of Tan Tian, “(Billboard, Manifesto, Joke)” opened at SPURS Gallery in 798 Art District, Beijing, on July 23, 2022. Though I was not able to attend the opening in person, I did get the idea of the brush stroke and color of his paintings, the choice of materials, texture, the construction of space, and the composition of works from the exhibition view photographs. Aesop can’t Fables is a stack of little cards in an open box made of transparent plastic fixed on the wall. To read the cards, the viewer may pick out any sheet, or the u-neck-shaped opening also allow a full read of the texts on the front card. Off the exhibition pictures, I still had a very good time reading into these plain black texts on white cards: short but lean like fables, they stop at where they should but leave the reader with sophisticated thoughts behind the words. I thereupon grew even more interested in a Text Talk with Tan Tian.
According to the artist, the entire show originated in his graduate school experience in the United States. “Supporters of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party were both in my class,” said Tan. “So very often, people just walked straight out of the room, even before the class ended, when they could not bear hearing someone else’s opinions. That was time I began to realize how greatly divided my surroundings are, and the pain, desperation, brought by such splits.” Though having taken Tan Tian four years in total to prepare, this solo show was described as a preview by the artist. He is still developing on this topic, creating works for the next show.
Tan Tian always keeps his vigilance and reflection on, never chesty, for the “artist” layer in his identity. Instead, he constantly seeks more – family duty, occupation, even part-time jobs – to feed upon, or to disturb, his identity as an artist. Born in 1988, he has become a husband and father; he has picked up jobs of different kinds and fields since his return from abroad until he now settled down in a joint identity combining roles of a studio artist and a teacher at an art school in-system. Meanwhile, he is still marking his footprint on this long road of becoming an artist. As he said:
Even if I were not an artist, I’d still stay alert and introspective.
Even if I were not an artist, I’d still treasure a personal path over any art piece.
Even if I were not an artist, I’d still become a husband and father.
Even if I were not an artist, I still wouldn’t stick to only one job.
Even if I were not an artist, I’d still walk on this road.
Q&A
YY=Yao Yao
TT=Tan Tian
YY: You named the new exhibition “(Billboard, Manifesto, Joke)”. The press wrote: “[your pursuit of form and attitude are:] attracting attention provocatively, making a point solemnly, and obscuring his intention humorously”. Did you write this yourself?
TT: I originally wrote that I hope my works are beautiful, smart, and sweet. But later it was rephrased like that.
YY: So, did you have any serious statement?
TT: Speaking of the works, I don’t have any serious statements in the contents. My art is just showing the viewers one way to express oneself.
YY: What kind of role does your 2013 piece, Feel Better After Throw Up No.5 play in the lineage of this exhibition?
TT: Conceptually, this piece is a sign of one specific time, 2013, the year it was made. So, what I tried to discuss in that piece was specific to things happening back then, and that’s totally different from everything now. In terms of the composition of all the installations, it is meant to obstruct and oppress. I was hoping to basically block the entrance of the stairs with this sculpture. And in terms of material, it is “creative” because nowadays in Beijing, very few people use materials this cheap to make art.
YY: Why the word choice of “make”, not any other verbs, in “How to Make A Contemporary Art Work”?
TT: Hahahaha, it’d be more interesting to change the verb to “kick” indeed!
YY: Generally, what’s your technique and process like?
TT: I’d start with the image of one painting, generally. As I paint, I ask myself: “what am I painting? Why am I painting this? I finish it, then what?” Next, I’d begin to consider what I’m writing. As I write, I ask myself: “what am I writing? Why am I writing this? I finish it, then what?” After this stage I turn to objects. As I look for objects, I ask myself: “what should I look for? Why using it? Am I ok without it?” That’s basically the process of all my artmaking.
YY: “Installation” is a wonderful invention by contemporary art that fuses Chinese painting, oil painting, printmaking, sculpture, found object, or ready-made all in one, as long as you can justify yourself. How do you train your thinking to achieve the completeness of your works?
TT: (Not answering.)
YY: You do have video works. But photography seems to be a medium you have yet to try. Will you consider photography?
TT: I have part-time jobs, so I have plenty of circumstances to take photos for people. But to be an artist, I prefer to stand before the lens.
YY: When your parents studied abroad in Germany, their major was Bildende Kunst; when you studied in the UK and the US, you were major in Fine Arts. Do you have any pure impulse to paint?
TT: No. I should try to stay close to but not exactly copying my parents’ path. This is like, say, my mom & dad are mango vendors, so I thought my best career option is being a fruit vendor – better tropical fruit vendor – too. However, I shouldn’t sell mango; I can be a coconut vendor next to them. This way I can help, in case they have to be away from their booth. After all I’m more knowledgeable than other people are with tropical fruit. If any customer has a question, I could probably represent them to answer.
YY: If you take a step away and see from a distance, how will you understand and comment on the learning environment & opportunity of your parent generation?
TT: In their time, there was better luck.
YY: You were born in and now are in the art ecosystem. Through your works, you critique on the art system itself. But is this sharpness based on a certain sense of security? You didn’t need to please this art world; rather, you’re like piercing it from within.
TT: We all live in this society and point out social issues from our own perspective. But your question on whether it’s based on a certain sense of security, well, I’m not so sure.
YY: Do you think you can grasp the subtle propriety of it? I mean, let the exposing of problems in the art ecosystem cease at “humor” and jokes, so that you won’t piss everyone off?
TT: Haha, why bother using “humor” as the form when you’re already exposing the art ecosystem? That’s totally unnecessary! Even if people are pissed in the art world, what can they do to me? What can they do to anyone at all? What truly require subtle propriety are actually “humor” itself and how to guide “humor” towards the topics worth of discussions. I do need to put more effort into this.
YY: As a teacher in the art academy, did your experience give you any “teaching is learning” type of gain?
TT: Not really. “Teaching is learning” sounds very lovely – the one who teaches and the one who learns may help each other and grow together. In fact, there lies a clear order: teaching comes first, and learning follows; then he gives you feedback; you listen, and think it over, and you must develop under this help… Not a single phase may be missed on this sequence. For me this is way too hard. I think “teaching is artmaking” is possible though. You are a teacher, and you keep your art going. The two things facilitate each other, grow together. Many veterans have been doing this already.
YY: You mentioned that you hoped your works are “beautiful, smart, and sweet”. That indeed matches your hope for showing works to everyone. Up to this point, which work you think is the most “beautiful, smart, and sweet”?
TT: I do hope so, I really do. But I’m never satisfied with my completed works, so I can’t name one. You know what, after all the bitterness I’ve tasted throughout the recent couple of years, I think I have been growingly beautiful, smart and sweet!
YY: So, on this road of becoming a contemporary artist, what kind of monumental moments are significant to you?
TT: I wish that the two most monumental works are: one, my very first work; two, my very last work. You come with talent; you leave with value.
YY: How do you spend a day, the most everyday way?
TT: I don’t have much to say on this. I want to part-time my whole life.
YY: To try out different professions? Or to keep an amateur condition? Which means never completely buying in, never all-in?
TT: You got half of it right. I hope I CAN be never completely buying in, however ALWAYS all-in. Staying part-time, on one hand allows you to exist in multiple professions therefore multiple identities, which means you’re in an all-purpose, flexible, forgivable position for any job – it trains your mind to race as well. I can imagine myself doing one thing professionally, but I cannot imagine myself living my whole life professionally.
与创意人同行｜谭天：其实，我是个兼职艺术家
By Yaoyao
Editor Ladong
在与谭天“谈天”之前，阅读了SPURS Gallery提供的个展“广告牌、宣言、笑话”的预览文件、名为《谭天画册》（作品集）的压缩文件，大致浏览了谭天个人网站 www.tan-tian.com，并在孔网微信小程序上兴致勃勃地订购了谭天父母谭平、滕菲的著作，包括《精神的游历：德国柏林艺术大学自由绘画系》《艺术家开门行动第三期：走进谭平工作室》。除了《光阴集》卖家标价300元，犹豫至今，还在购物车之外，前两本都收到并翻阅。不知怎的，采访提纲渐渐浮现为一封列满问题的电子邮件，希望谭天以文字的形式作答，当然，遇到不想回答的问题也可以不回答。这种形式可以避免“后疫情时代”网络视频采访可能造成的手忙脚乱，也可以排除语气、声线的修辞和艺术家外表、个人魅力的干扰，最主要的是让双方都不需要去表演，直接地问答。谭天也接受了这种“笔谈”的形式。
上海徐汇乌鲁木齐中路上的寄存处 de Pot 曾展出过谭天的两件作品。一件是《Marvin Gaye Chetwynd + Haegue Yang + Naama Tsabar》，出自系列“如何做一件当代艺术品”。在这个系列中，谭天表达了对当代艺术“生产”的观察、研究、思考与批判，借由调取他建立的“Database Index” 中艺术家名字，重新组合他拆析的艺术家代表性语言与材料，谭天创作出又一件新的当代艺术品。这大概展示了谭天对当代艺术世界深入的洞见与开阔的国际视野，也许还有一些幽默感。另一件作品是一幅“字画”，《10 pieces of paper with 10 titles - The Explanation》，归档在谭天个人网站作品系列“2019”中，同时展出的也许本应该还有十张纸，它们同属于这件作品。这可能是谭天以“纸”来开展对社会人类学中“深描”这一实践的尝试，并付之于一件布上“画”作，从而不拘泥于文“字”。看后让人印象深刻。
属于谭天的第三个个展，已于2022年7月23日在北京798艺术区马刺画廊SPURS Gallery拉开帷幕。未亲临其境，仅从展览现场图片中看到谭天画作中的笔触、用色，包括材料的选择、肌理，空间的搭建、作品的布置，感受一二。作品《伊索没办法寓言》是一叠小卡片，观众可以从固定在墙上的开放式透明塑料盒中抽取阅读，也可以就着盒子镂空的部位完整阅读最上面的一张卡片。阅读翻拍自展厅的一张张白色卡纸黑字，这些文字引人入胜：寓言体般的短小精悍，点到为止的节制背后是庞杂的思考。于是，更加想以文字来跟谭天“谈天”。
据谭天介绍，本次展览的缘起是他在美国读研究生期间的经历：“同班同学中支持民主党与共和党的都有，他们之间常常没有办法上完一节课就有人因为其他人的观点拍案离开教室。从那一刻开始，我逐渐意识到周围的一切的分裂感有多么严重，以及这种分裂感给人带来的痛苦与绝望。”前后筹备四年，谭天把这次个展形容为预展，他仍在准备发展这个主题，为下一个展览继续创作。
谭天对“艺术家”这重身份保持着警惕和反思，并且从未自满于其中，反而不断寻求着一些其他的——家庭责任、职业身份甚至兼职工作——来充实或说扰乱艺术家这一身份。1988年出生的他，现已成为丈夫、父亲，他在回国后也从事过不同类型、领域的工作，直至目前在工作室艺术创作和体制内高校执教两种社会身份中安顿下来。与此同时，他仍然走在成为艺术家的这条很长的路上。如他自己所说的：
我就算不当艺术家也会一直保持警惕与反思的。
我就算不当艺术家也会觉得个人的路径比某件作品更加宝贵的。
我就算不当艺术家也会成为一个丈夫跟父亲的。
我就算不当艺术家也不会只做一份工作的。
我就算不当艺术家也会走这条路的。
姚瑶：新展题为“广告牌，宣言，笑话”，展览序言写道“同时要招摇地吸引注意、要郑重地表达观点、要用幽默模糊意图”——这句是你的原话吗？
谭天：我的原话是希望我的作品又美又灵又甜。后来改成了现在这句话。
姚瑶：那你有什么想郑重表达的吗？
谭天：就作品来说，我没有要郑重表达的内容，我的创作是在向观众展示一种表达的方法。
姚瑶：2013年的作品《吐出来就好No.5》在本次新展的结构脉络中是什么角色？
谭天：在概念上，这个作品起的是一个时间点的标识作用，因为这个作品是2013年做的，我讨论的是那时候的事，跟现在的事完全不同。在布展方式上，这件作品起的是一个堵塞和压迫的作用，我希望这件雕塑可以把楼梯的入口基本堵住。在材料上，这件作品起的是一个“创新”的作用，现在北京的展览里，很少有人用这么廉价的材料做东西了。
姚瑶：“如何做一件当代艺术品”，动词为什么是“做”，而不是其他？
谭天：哈哈哈哈，动词如果换成“踢”的确更有趣一些！
姚瑶：一般情况下，你的创作方法和过程是怎样的？
谭天：我一般是从一张画的画面开始，一边画一边问自己，“我要画什么？我为什么要画这个？画完又能怎么样？”然后我会开始思考我要写什么，一边写一边问自己，“我在写什么？我为什么要写这个？写完会是怎么样？”然后我就转头去找一些物体，一边找一边问自己，“我应该找什么？为什么用这个？离开这个行不行？”基本上我所有的创作过程都是这样的。
姚瑶：“装置”是当代艺术一个特别好的发明，可以将国油版雕、物件或现成品都融到里面，但需要自圆其说。你是如何训练自己的思考以臻作品的完整？
谭天：（不回答）。
姚瑶：你有录像作品，但摄影似乎是你一直还没有尝试的媒介。你会考虑摄影吗？
谭天：我有做兼职工作，常常要替人拍照。但做艺术家这件事，我更希望在镜头前。
姚瑶：你的父母在德国留学期间的专业是自由绘画，而你在英、美两国学习的专业是自由艺术。你有纯粹的绘画冲动吗？
谭天：没有，我跟我父母的路线要尽可能地靠近，但不能一致。比如说，我爸妈的工作是卖芒果的，我觉得对于我来说最优的职业选择也是卖水果，还得是卖热带水果，但我不能也去卖芒果，我可以在他们旁边卖椰子。平时他们不在，我还可以帮他们看看摊，因为相对来说我比较了解热带水果，别人问起来，我还能帮他们答几句。
姚瑶：如果抽离来看你与父母辈的学习环境和机遇，你会如何理解、评价？
谭天：在他们的时代里，有着更好的运气。
姚瑶：你生在又身在艺术生态中，你通过作品对艺术机制本身进行批判，这种尖锐是否是基于一种安全感？因为你似乎不需要去讨好、迎合这个圈子，反而是要从内部刺破的感觉。
谭天：我们都生活在这个社会中，指出自己认为的一些社会问题。至于是否是基于一种安全感呢？我不太确定诶。
姚瑶：你觉得自己能把握住那个尺度或说火候吗？把揭露艺术生态的一些问题止于“幽默”、笑话这个层面，而不致于惹恼所有人？
谭天：哈哈，揭露艺术生态干嘛还要用“幽默”的形式？完全用不着！就算惹恼了艺术圈的人，他们能把我怎么着？他们能把任何人怎么着？需要把握火候的是“幽默”本身，以及如何把“幽默”引向值得讨论的问题上，这方面我还需要努力。
姚瑶：在艺术院校执教，能给你带来什么“教学相长”方面的收获吗？
谭天：没有太多。“教学相长”听起来是一个很美好的状态，教育与学习可以相互促进、一起成长。但实际上，教育与学习是有一个明确的先后次序的，你得先教东西，然后他得学东西，然后他得反馈，然后你还得听到，然后你还得思考，然后你还得被促进，这些次序少一个都不行。对我来说这个太难了。但我倒是觉得“教艺相长”是有可能的，一边当老师一边做艺术，相互促进，一起成长，很多老前辈都是这么做的。
姚瑶：你说希望自己的作品“又美又灵又甜”，与你的作品一直希望给所有人看的，倒是很契合。截至目前，哪一件作品你觉得是最美最灵最甜的？
谭天：我的确是这么希望的，但我对我已完成的作品总是不够满意，所以我找不出一件来。倒是近些年自己吃了不少苦，觉得自己越来越美越来越灵越来越甜了！
姚瑶：在成为当代艺术家的路上，你觉得有哪些里程碑式的时刻是重要的？
谭天：我希望我最重要的两件里程碑作品，一件是我的第一件作品，一件是我最后一件作品。有天赋地来，有价值地走。
姚瑶：属于你的日常的一天，是怎么安排的？
谭天：一天没什么想说的。我想兼职度过一生。
姚瑶：兼职是为了尝试不同的职业，还是希望保持一种业余的状态，意味着始终不全相信、不全情投入？
谭天：说对了一半。我希望自己可以做到不全相信，但全情投入。保持一个兼职的状态，第一可以让你存在多重职业与多重身份，这个在任何的工作当中都可以让你处于一个灵活又容易被谅解的位置，同时你的脑子也会转得更快。我可以想象自己职业地做一件事情，但没办法想象自己职业地过一生。